The Big Exit
The Big Exit

Episode 3 · 2 years ago

Lori Torres - Going from Borrowing Money to a $100+MM Exit in 4.5 Years


Lori Torres left a high-paying job, had to sell her home, and borrow money from her mom to get her company, Parcel Pending, off the ground. Due to her personal frustration and knowledge of where online shopping was headed, Lori saw a tremendous gap in the market for making it easy and secure for apartment residents to receive and collect packages 24 hours a day. She took her idea and turned it into a $100+MM exit in record time. This is her story.


The "Elf on the Shelf" moment. 

Culture and customer service that led to a $100MM Exit. 

Risking it all and believing in the idea. 

What does being an entrepreneuer mean to Lori? 

Sample Transcription

Dan Daugherty

Today, I have very special guest who I've known for about six years, all the way back to when she was trying to get her company off the ground, and since then she has built one of the largest companies within the package delivery space and last year in 2019 sold her company, Parcel Pending, for over one hundred million dollars. Lori Torres. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today.

Lori Torres

Hey Dan, so happy to be with you. Thanks for having me.

Dan Daugherty

Well, I wanted to start this off with a two part question. The first is what is Parcel Pending? And I know you had a very lucrative job before you started Parcel Pending. What made you decide to leave that cushy job and take the leap into starting your own company?

Lori Torres

Yeah. So, first off let me tell you what Parcel Pending is. We do electronic smart lockers and so invision a bank of lockers that have technology in them and we put them in apartment buildings at office buildings, in retail and so couriers can come deliver the package straight into the locker. They find the recipient and then it sends a text, an email to the recipient, and now they get this text for email with the code and they can go to the lockers and pick up their stuff. It's a safe and secure way to get our packages and contact free in the world of COVID. So it's a great solution to a huge growing problem because everybody is shopping online and they want to get their stuff, but they don't want it stolen off their front porch. So that's what Parcel Pending is.

So let me tell you what happened was I was at a fancy corporate America job. I was in the apartment business running 44,000 apartment units with about 1,200 employees and my staff kept asking for more headcount and bigger package rooms because the residents were home in their pajamas shopping online and all of a sudden they were just inundated with packages and so I was like, we can't add headcount, that's an expense, it doesn't make any sense. So I thought, you know we could solve this with technology...

Welcoming to the big exit where we discussed startup acquisitions with the founders who lived it. Here's your host, Damn Doherty. I mean, I came corporate America, thirty plus years in corporate America, no clue how to start a business and certainly no clue how to go raise money. Had to group my mom. Mom, do you have any money? She's like, I don't have her money, but I hope you can use my heel off and but yet to pay it not. I was like, okay, this is a risk for you, but if you trust me, she's like, I trust you, I believe in what you're doing. You go for it. I risk it all. I was the breadwinner of my family. I had real income that was coming in was from me, and so I put it all on the line and and there were some tough dark days, I have to say. I mean, but I just believed in it so much like I knew I had something with parcel pending and I wasn't going to give up and there was no egg to stop and you know, each of those tough dark days you just just push through it when you believe in it, and I knew other people believe in it I could make it happen, and so we worked her tail off to get there. They have a very special guest who I've known for about six years, all the way back to when she was trying to get her company off the ground, and since then she has built one of the largest companies within the package delivery space and last year in two thousand nineteen soldier company partial pending for over one hundred million dollars. Laur Torres, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. Hey, Dan, so glad to be with you. Thanks for having me well, I wanted to start this off with a two part question. The first is what is partial pending? And I know you had a very lucrative job before you started partial pending. What made you decide to leave that cushy job and take the leap into starting your own company? Yeah, so, first off, let me tell you what partial pending is. We do electronic smartlockers, and so envision a bank of lockers that have technology in them and we put them in at apartment buildings, at office buildings, in retail and so couriers can come deliver the package straight into the locker, they find the recipient and and then it sends a text an email to the recipient and now they get this text or email with a code and they can go to the lockers and pick up their stuff. It's a safe and secure way to get your package and contact free in the world of Covid. So it's a great solution to a huge growing problem, because everybody is shopping online and they want to get their stuff but they don't want it stolen off their front porch. So that's what partial pending is. So let me tell you what happened. Was I was at I did have a fancy corporate America job. I was in the apartment business, running forty fourzero apartment units at about two hundred employees, and I staff cap asking me for more head count on bigger package rooms because the residents were home in their pajamas shopping online and all of a sudden they were just inundated with packages, and so I was like yeah, we can't add headcount. That's an expense. Doesn't make any sense. So I thought, you know, we kind of we could solve this with technology. There has to be away and so as I was trying to figure it out, I am spent some time and then I realized, D minute, I can solve this for bigger than the herbine company. I can solve this for the industry, and so I left my fancy, cushy job. As you said. You know, when you're seeing a repeat at this large real estate firm in California, people just didn't leave. They didn't you know, it just didn't happen, and so people thought I was nuts, but I left and I started perceial pending and it's been such a ride. It's been awesome. So you just left. You had talked to other people. Did you have a CO founder? How did you even start? You know, I talked to a million people and I did actually start with a count co founder and she and I were going to try to become partners and we just couldn't get anything really going. We had a prototype, but we just couldn't get there. And funny enough she ended up leaving. I mean we broke up...

...and at very amicably. I always break up amicably, and so we broke up and she went her way and I think when I say break up, just as business partners. She went her way, I went my way and we're still do the day talk. We still call each other on different issues. Or when she sold her company, she called me and I sold my company, I called her, and so we've stayed friendly over the years. And but I you know what, I found so many other entrepreneurs that were willing to help me because I knew nothing about it. I mean I came from Corporate America, thirty plus years in corporate America, no clue how to start a business and certainly no clue how to go raise money. And and I what, didn't have a technology background. So it was all new to me. But I just knew there was a solution and that I could solve it. And within four and a half years you went from zero to an exit right, yeah, which is crazy. I mean it is insane. You know, it's four and a half years from the time we incorporated the company, or we, I should say I, but I'm used to we, because we're a big team now. And yes, we actually did it in four and a half years. And probably, I would say prior to that I was building the technology and building, you know, or the early stage of the business planning. But from the time I got my first round of funding and incorporated, it was four and a half years till the accident. And did you raise money? We did. I raised the first round. I did an angel round. So I boot strapped my way in the beginning and then I was out of cash and it was like, oh my gosh, I can't go any further. What I'm going to do? And then I say went to some friends and family. Money had to go to my mom. Mom, do you have any money? This is a great story because my mom actually she was like, I don't have the money, but I you can use my Helock, my home improvement loan, and but you have to pay it nothing. I was like, okay, this is a risk for you, but if you trust me, she's like I trust you, I believe in what you're doing. You go for it, and so I'll tell you the end story afterwards on that, because it was a great outcome for her. And so I raise money. I did a if through angel investors. I did a one point three ish round, one point three million, and then I did a strategic round and I went to a rate in the apartment industry and actually did a fifteen million dollar around, which was an interesting deal and it changed over time, but it was it was a great deal. They were a great partner. Wow. And and the first Angel Round, did you do that as an equity round or was that a convertible note? No, I had convertible notes from the friends and family money. And then the angel round was a equity round. And and this was a crazy story to down because I so the folks that I went to. People would say, you know, you should talk to these guys, tech coast angels, but just know that it could take eighteen months and typically they don't fund people. They kind of had this bad reputation of not moving quickly and not getting it done. And I went there pitched it to pre screen screening at at the screening I got a call afterwards from the president of the techst angels and he said, you know, this is the first time ever a hundred percent of the room raise their hand and would be interested in investing. It doesn't mean they're going to invest, but it means that there was a high level of interest. A hundred percent said I've never seen it before. So he's like, we're going to take you to the dinner meeting so that I go to the next meeting and pitch it to, you know, all of the Angel Investors and we close that round in seven weeks, from pre screen to money in my bank seven weeks, and so it was great because it really helped them get kind of the fire under them to do so many more deal and they've done some great deals over the years now since my deal. I mean they had done some great ones prior but just they weren't as active and as urgent and the reputation wasn't as great, and it really changed the game for them, I think, and obviously for us. Put the money on our account very quickly, in seven weeks, and so it seems like everything I did in part at personal penny was really fast, from four and a half years to an exit. My exit was a thirty two day exit. I'll talk about that in a minute. Just fast, which, by the way, I talk fast. So sorry, Dan, I know I'm probably talking too fast, but that's how I work. That's... everything gets happened so fast. I love that. I love a story of your mom. I did the same thing, by the way. But do you remember what the valuation was at the Angel Around? I think it was like a two point three million valuation. If I are aw I think that was about right. Yeah, almost did quite okay. They were very, very happy on the good work. Yeah, that's it. Forty five x time, you know, at least from over a hundred million. Happy. Great job there. I remember pre IPO, when Google was about to go public, they did a Dutch auction which allowed for really retail investors to get in at the at the price that I went out at, and I told my mom, you guys better get in here, you know it's probably going to be around eighty five. And she got an eighty five dollars back then, and it come to find out, it was something like almost their entire life savings, which wasn't much. Right. She put a lot of you know, she she believed in her son and here we are. So probably similar to what you experienced. So, Auten, wasn't that the best call ever that you've made? Like but then I had called my mom and say, okay, your share. She was share older number one. We gave her certificate number one and I was like hey, mom, and she was up north at her sister's house and in bed like wait, will grew up, hy mom, I got a Sayet. I sold the company. What what is? It is awesome. And she did. She did very well. She was very happy about it and you know, she really wasn't in it just she had never made a lot of money her whole career like your mom. You know, it is her whole life savings. It from my mom was a stretch for her to let me do that and that it changed her life, which was pretty cool. Well, why thought of you. I remember, I think it was in two thousand and fourteen, and I think it was at Mtech, which is a conference for real estate entrepreneurs, specifically within multi family, and I remember I was speaking and I think you were in the first or second row, and I said something to the effect of you have to be willing to give up everything in order to gain anything of significance. And that was very true for me with the first company. It was less true for the second and third company because I had more experience it was easier to raise money, but at the time, I don't know if you remember that, but at the time, if you did remember that, did that ring true to you? Oh my God, totally. And so, I mean I put it all on the table, all of it, I mean from you know, I risked it all. I was the bread winner of my family, I had the real income that was coming in was it for me. And so I put it all on the line and and there were some tough dark days, I have to say. I mean I'd sell my house. Had A big fancy house on the golf course and I had to sell my house. And but I just believed in it so much, like I knew I had something with parcel pending and I wasn't going to give up and there was no way I could stop. And you know, each of those tough dark days you just you just push through it because when you believe in it, and I knew other people believed in it, I could make it happen. And so we just worked her tail off to get there. Did you find that of those I have the same experience. I wanted to quit so many times but never did. Just kept pushing through it. Did you did you see a positive correlation with the amount of I quits to to maybe the next week or the next day, things improved dramatically. You know what I have to say? I actually never had the I want to quit. I had in my family wanted me to quit, and that my family was kind of like pushing you know, at Disneyland, that Big Old Boulder and Indiana Jones that if you were standing under out that boulder, it was like pushing that boulder up to get them to be okay, that look, we're going to be okay, we've got going to get through this. It's going to be a good outcome. Like that was probably the tougher part. I never had a day that I felt like I wanted... quit. I had days where I was like God, this is so hard and I I don't know what that means, like it's just such a dumb statement, but it was so freaking hard. I was like where's the easy button? And there's never been an easy button, not a single day, even up to today. It's just not easy. I don't understand. When is it going to be easy? Dan, never, never, know that would be no. And did it scare you at all when more and more big players starting to get into the market, like Amazon and real page and you know all the others? Yes, for sure. I remember that was another day of like Oh my God, Oh my God, on my God, when Amazon announced that they were coming to the market with the apartment hub and then it would be courier or agnostic. We knew Amazon was there. When I started and launched the company. They were in other countries but they really hadn't taken off in the US with their lockers and they would just starting to put lockers in at staples and radio shack and but they were, you know, they were only for Amazon lockers and they tried to get in a multifamily and they put in a few properties with lockers, but they only took Amazon and I knew that wasn't a success story because you had to be career orgnostic. But we knew the day they went career orgnastic it was going to be a challenge and I was always worried, you know, when they go a day where they just give you free lockers and is that going to put us out of business? And so it was a pretty tough weekend. It was a long weekend, I remember vividly, and and I worked with my board and my leadership team and we just kind of work through a strategy and, you know, one moment I was like she we just sell the company? Do we just call it? And then we just kept going and I don't know, they actually made us better, smarter and more successful actually, and then if you if you if you see kind of market share. Now, have they been taking murder share or as it validated what you were doing? I think it's validated what we're doing. I think it's actually been a gift for us and so, but I'm a believe that that competition is a gift because it makes you better and smarter, and so I'm certainly they've taken market share and some of the market share that we would like to have had, but we compete pretty fiercely with them. In their price points lower than ours, a lot lower than ours, but people really want to serve us. So it's more than just having a locker. It's kind of like, you know, you want more than just the car that has wheels on it, you want some of the service that goes around with it in the bills and whistles. Completely agree and you know. So you are growing your business rapidly, lots of revenue. What happened? What what made you decide? was there a turning point? Did did you? Were you practically looking to sell now? So this is a great story. I am I would get emails and calls from venture capital, from private equity, and every response, I mean it was like auto response, head down, run in the company with our hair on fire, call mane a year. It was just my standard response. It's probably in my you know, email outlook tenzero times I'd write that, say message, headdown, rendom company with our air on fire, calling the year. And and then I got and yeah, and by the way. So we were thinking that we have an exit in eighteen to twenty four months and we were just starting the plan at we were going to do our first audit. We were talking in interviewing investment bankers. It was like the dating gang that started dating some investment bakers and make sure that we, you know, let's get ourselves ready, let's get our house in order and get it cleaned up and ready for an exit in a year and a half to two years, which really, in my mind meant two to three years, because you just can't plan at that, you know tight. But I thought we you know, that will be ready by then. And then this company came to us and said to the email, and my first response was head down, read a company here on fire. And they rode back and they said no, and we're serious. We have been in the locker business in other countries. We have lockers in Japan and lockers in France and we want to be in the US market. We've done a lot of research. We've hired it one of the big firms to really research the market. We'd like to come meet with you. And I was like, yeah, I'm too busy, but I'm happy to have a phone call with you. So we had a phone call and then another phone call and they kept pushing you, like get us the NDA, give us the NDA, and...

I just wasn't motivated because in my mind we didn't have high enough revenue yet to get the exit that I wanted. And they kept they were pretty persistent, and so they they came and met with US December third, by December twenty one, I have a weather of intent and we closed on January s twenty one, I guess it was no year. Was Crazy, and I mean they said to us, they said, are you prepared to do a deal? And thirty days, I do have the resources. Can you get what? You make the commitment if we go to give you this letter of intent? Because they had a they have an agenda. They wanted to buy a company. They were making a big announcement or public company, and so there were there's an agenda on their side, and so they had a reason that they wanted it to happen in the short window of time. And so, you know, it's a little gift for us because we had all the leverage in the world because we were willing to I personally was willing to walk away. We had some challenges that you know come up, that all deals have some challenges that come up, and I was like look, we'll just wait, we'll wait six months, will get our house an order, was our original plan, together in an order, and they're like no, no, we'll figure this out. So a lot of negotiation happened. I in those thirty two days. It was moody. Did you did you visualize a number? Did you always know what you wanted or what you would would take at the table? You know, it's interesting. So the sun I can't remember who it was, but someone said to me, how much do you want to sell your company for? And when I got that question it was one of those what moments of like what, how much do I want to sell my company for? Then, I mean this was way early on, and so I kind of I was like, you know, I'd really like to grow into a hundred million in revenue and I'd like to get three hundred million in an exit and I just threw a number at right, crazy, crazy, and so everyone's I could luck with that, lady. And and so it was kind of my goal to get to a hundred million in revenue, which, by the way, we didn't get to before the exit. And but it was what I wanted to do because it was just like the hunt of it. It was like when I was running the Irvine Company, apartments groups, they operations. I I my goal was to us to a billion dollars in revenue, which by now wells of pets or passed in annual revenues for the apartment group, but at the time we hadn't and so I was really motivated and I don't know why that kind of thing gets me excited. So when these guys came, they set at the table and four guys flew in from France, probably exhausted, and sit at my conference table. I'm like, nice to have you here, but let me just tell you it's too early to sell the company and it doesn't make any sense. The number that I'm going to want will not make sense to you. Of a businesswoman, and I understand valuations and I know that our revenue is not high enough, but I'm not willing to sell it for less than this. And so they stuck to this and the number we got was the number they agreed to from the beginning. What a great story. So so you threw multiples out the window. It wasn't it wasn't right. I did, we did, we did, and and being made a lot of justifying to do. We had a lot of justifying to do. We went back and forth with numbers and tried to prove that you know why, we believed in the number that we had, and and we did. We believed in it, and you know, it was me. It is that happened, and I'm assuming you had no pushback from the board. There's gonna push back on that. Kidding me. And then what happened? So you get a big chat. How does this work? You get a big check and then that's distributed to all of the shareholders that were under cap table. It's a funny thing. Actually. It was such a weird thing because there was a little delay that was happening the day it was superst to close and I'm supposed to have all hands meeting with the entire team and an announced it would close and everything had to happen in because it was a public company and see had to be super careful, like I couldn't tell the shareholders, but my agreement with the shareholders from when I did the original aims around was very specific and they had to I had to call twenty six, I think twenty twenty seven, shareholders on the day after Christmas. I'd personally call them on say look, I'm calling you because I'm going to ask you to do something that's unconventional. I need you to trust me. I'm going to ask for a vote and you're going to have to go with the vote. You guys are selling the company. Here's what the offers in and here's approximately what you're going to make. But...

...this is unconventional because I'm supposed to buy the agreement give you thirty days. I don't have thirty degree days to do it. So it was an interesting approach that had to happen. Can you imagine, the day after Christmas calling everyone? I mean I track down people in Mexico, I called people all up for the country and because I it was like wrangling cats right heard in the cats, because I had to get all their signatures. I had to get tons of documentation and so the day it was supposed to close, there's one last like insurance issue and the underwriters just hadn't funded the policy or something, and so I kept waiting and waiting and waiting, and then to tell the team like hey, we sold the company. There was only a handful of people that knew we'd sold the company, but a lot of people suspected that. They were like you, guys, your behavior is too weird. You're not a cut, we're not. Our leadership team isn't type to be behind closed doors all the time. We were at the I to not share very openly what's going on, and they just sense there was something going on. But that same day, so I haven't all hands. I'm like, I'm I was like for Dad, I just got to tell him, even though it hasn't closed. I said that this is the most awkward moment because I think we sold the company, but maybe we didn't solve a company. But I think it's going to close, but maybe it's not going to close, but I'm gonna leave it at that. And though I think those were actually my exact word. And then a client came in our building. And so a client comes in the building and we haven't you know, we're showing them, given him a tour. They come in and we do the presentation to I'm trying to sell lokers right. And so I get a text from my cfo and he's like money transferred. Okay, there was no Woohoo, there was no bottles Poppin, nothing at a client there. It couldn't be disrespectful, and so it was just like business as usual. Then I got out of the meeting and it was kind of like, okay, now I got to do business in this because I had to all the employees, because all employees have a piece of the Pie, and so I do documentation. I'd meet with every employee and have them signed documents, and so there was kind of a little anticlimatic at the time, but we did do a big party later on and and you to keep everything quiet. So most of the employees had no idea. No, most of the employees did not have any day. Let me tell you this. My family didn't even know, and the reason for that was because I separated at the time and so not living with my husband and he had friends that were shareholders and I couldn't tell him because I it was risking that he would tell these his friends. There were shareholders. So I couldn't tell anyone. I couldn't tell my own kids. I could. It was like such a bizarre feeling, like I remember sitting in my face going this kind of sucks, like it's the most exciting thing ever and I can't tell anyone other than the team that you know at first depending that it was really bizarre, but it was awesome also, no kidding, so super lonely. Obviously. I'm a guessing you not shop this around because there was no time for shopping. I mean we had a minute of talk of should we shop it, and it's like, are you kidding me? Seriously, no shopping. Don't kind of go back to this company in Paris, I believe. Correct. Yeah, correct, and neo post their time. Now they page is called, that's right, my post analys. What's the new name? quadient? That's right, so quadient. So did you have any relationship whatsoever with anyone within that organization, or did they just you just did a great job of growing the business and getting press and they just reached out to you? Yeah, yeah, that's it. They actually hired a consulting firm to do an analysis of the locker market in the US and they really learned who was out there and they knew everything they could about our competitors and about us. And so, you know, it was they talked to our competitors and I think you know, they even looked at potentially buying a other folks and they looked at but they really took a deep die in the market. And so no, I had no relationship other than I've met a few of their sales reps at a trade show once and that very you know, nothing more than just hey, how you doing? Good luck, because they were trying to sell offers and break into the market and haven't been able to get there yet. I just love this story and out people.

You're so nice to say that, but let me just tidy the truth down. It wasn't about me. I mean I have an amazing team and when I look back at people on the team, and I don't mean just like the senior leadership team, the entire team like, I have people that are just like so committed. They're committed to each other, they're committed to the company, they're committed to me, they're committed to the customers like I just I don't know how lucky, how I was able to be so lucky to build such an incredible team, and I still have a lot of those folks with me. When we lost a few after the sale, that were painful losses that. You know, people come because they want to be in a company that's going to sell and they want an exit and then they go to the next one. But I it was amazing people. To this day I'm just so blessed to get to lead this group of folks. What was the total headcount preaquisition? Do you know? I can't remember. I think it was like a hundred and ten or something, and now we're over too. I think we're almost two fifteen now to so. So then that's part of what the CEO should should do, is one make sure you don't run a money in to hire the best people, and it sounds like you did that. Yeah, for sure. I mean that was always a focus. That and culture was always a very big key for me, like I would never let anything be more important than culture, culture and customer service, like the customer experience in the promise. And let me tell you, we made a lot of mistakes and we have problems. We had to technology problems and we have manufacturing problems and it it's just not easy. And I was recently reading the Roll Street Journal and I was reading like all these companies. Is is before covid but it was like it. I was reading about this company's have a problem with their technology and this company were huge companies that we all know the names of, and this company is having this issue and this company is like not the only one, thank God, it's there's so many issues. Always, always true. That's true. One I try to have one consistent question that I asked all founders and entrepreneurs and I get a different answer most of the time, but I wanted to ask you this. What does being in entrepreneur mean to you? Let's I don't know that anyone's out to you ask me that specific question. I guess it's it's a gift of being able to go out and create what you want to create and figuring out what the needs are on this planet that you can actually have an impact on. And so how cool is it that we live in a society that I could quit my fancy corporate America job, I could make my own decision to leave and go start something and then turn around and sell it for what I sold it for. I mean it's pretty cool that you can do that and doesn't happen in every country, and so I feel pretty well, you know, fortunate that I could be an entrepreneur and I didn't even know I was an entrepreneur. I was a corporate America Gal. Who Knew? Right, that's a crazy part, right you? Yeah, you never knew. So growing up, you didn't have a vision or a passion for starting business, as it kind of just came to you. I always kind of did want to start a business, but I never had a good idea. And I had one idea once and I blew it and someone else came to the market. If you've ever had, you have a little kids, that elph on the shelf. God, I wanted to bring that to Oh yes, I had that idea thirty years ago and I didn't do anything with it, and that's why when this came up, this is just true story. When this came up, I was like, I'm not passing this up. This could be my Elph on the shelf. I mean I could have had a freaking macy's Day balloon parade on Thanksgiving it and I taken that Elf when someone else came up with that and I'll like God darn it, I had that idea. I had this Elf that came and flew around my house. So the Elf on the shelf moment, and that says a lot. I'm going to use that, the elph on the shelf moment. A lot of it is timing to write, because this great idea could not have been successful without, you know, a vast majority of the population shopping online and getting packages right and and having really a rentorship society at the moment that your idea became manifested into...

...a hundred plus million dollar exit. Do you know? I think the one message that I would want to convey is that, you know, why not take the rest? In my mind, I was confident and enough in what I had done then in my career that if this failed miserably, I had go get a job. I knew I could get a job and I look, I wasn't loaded with money. I mean I did bootstrap my way in the beginning, but I knew that if it was I couldn't get it off the ground, I could go get a job and so I decided to just take that risk and I think that people don't want to take that risk in life and but look what you might miss out on. I mean, I'm so glad I took the risk. That's right. That's right. You would not be where you are today. And, to your pointing, even if it didn't turn out the way it turned out, you would have learned a lot and that would it increased your value. To your point to go either start a new company or go back and work the corporate life again. Yeah, exactly. Well, Lori thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with our listeners. Happy to do it, Dan. Good luck to you. I love all that you're doing. You Inspire me. Three companies. I can't even imagine. I've only done it once. I don't know. It's impressive. Well, I have a feeling that you'll start many more. We'll see. Time will tell. Thanks, Dan.

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